Dave Engbers: The truth is, there honestly wasn't a lot of craft beer prior to Founders other than Kalamazoo Brewing Company, which is now Bell's Brewing Company.

Mike Stevens: I think in Grand Rapids, prior to the Nineties, there was a lot of fizzy beer in town.

Mike: Other than your typical drinking in college, there was no serious background in our family history. We don't come from a long lineage of brew masters. We were both good friends in college and both home brewing, and that's kind of what piqued our interest. From there, the brewing hobby kind of transformed into a career and we went from there. It was a perfect combination: A couple of friends, a couple of home brewers and no concern for where the future lies.

Mike: Probably when we were also faced with the worst disaster — bankruptcy, or contemplating bankruptcy. From that contemplation came a lot of good thought, and that's when we really transformed our flavor profiles. Dave and I actively said, ‘If we're goin' down, let's make beers that we're really proud of.' From that came all the crazy beers everyone knows us for.

Dave: Essentially, we were trying to please the public by dumbing down beers. We said, ‘Why don't we start brewing beers that we like to drink,' and once we decided to become aggressive, we realized that there were a lot of breweries brewing the same style of beer, and no one was stepping outside and saying ‘Let's challenge people's taste buds.'

Dave: Our beers were always well-balanced, but unremarkable.

Dave: Initially, yes. They were just generic.

Mike: We didn't have anything unique standing off the shelf. When we retooled and reinvented ourselves, we came to the retail outlets with product that no one else had presented. It allowed us shelf space without having to fight 12 other breweries to get it.

Mike: For me, I think what's interesting about the industry is the product is a source of fun and entertainment for most people. So it's a while different element than if you're just making Fenders, or just some other widget. We're actually crafting something that is, for most of us, a source of great joy. So the following you have is part of their weekend, it's what makes them happy.

Mike: Who doesn't want a great weekend? We're crafting a better weekend.

Dave: We do produce a product, but we're a very emotional, social product that people talk about. When you're at the grocery store, people look at what beer you have in your shopping cart. It makes an impact, and it's great to be a part of the community.

Dave: 500 barrels.

Dave: We're on track for 28,000 barrels.

Mike: Yeah, especially in the last two years.

Dave: Our largest growth has happened in the last 28 months. When we left the old location, we were doing 5,000 barrels, so we're almost six times the volume in two and a half short years.

Dave: The beers really are kind of like kids. You don't necessarily have a favorite, but it depends on your activity, time of day, or what you're eating. For every occasion, there's a different beer. Red's Rye is my lunch beer, and at the end of the day, it's big, hoppy Double Trouble.

Mike: If I'm to look at our specialty beers, I might pick Curmudgeon. If it were an everyday beer, it would be somewhere between Red's Rye, or Centennial IPA.

Mike: Drink a few beers and start throwing things out on the table. You've got to lubricate the mind a little bit.